anon · 9mo
Preaching to the choir here, but since this discourse is making the rounds again for the billionth time, I find it kind of amusing that the same people accusing female-dominated fic fandom of internalized misogyny for creating mostly m/m content (m/f is actually the most popular if you take FFnet and Wattpad into account, ao3 stats only look the way they do because ao3 grew out of LJ slash fandom, but this is ignored for some reason) also react with abject horror at yuri fanboys existing. Like, statistically speaking, women attracted to men, as well as trans and nonbinary AFABs attracted to men who share the same spaces because people generally don't change their interests and social circles after coming out (nor should they have to), when combined, outnumber women attracted to other women, so if all you (general you) care about is the QUANTITY of f/f content, then I'm sorry to say but you'll have to turn to the biggest population attracted to women i.e. men.
It, of course, isn't just about the quantity, but about the quality people perceive as only being possible in f/f written by and for wlw and... Look, okay, I know straight men who objectify wlw exist, but I'm a bi woman and I've been in himedanshi spaces (usually for magical girl shows) and they are really not all that different from any other shipping space, and the fic and fanart can be quite good. It can also be quite horny but, I mean, I thought we were all here because we were horny for women? I don't think that's objectification inherently. And also, there's even a similiar phenomenon to what I alluded to above with trans men where trans women discover themselves in himedanshi fandom but (often, not always obviously) don't leave it in favor of "by and for wlw" spaces, even though they fit that description now. Nearly all of the actually awful misogynistic, objectifying and homophobic behavior attributed to "yuri fetishization" came from, like, reddit bros who are either only into het or think shipping in general is cringe. My experiences are not universal, blah blah, but I've had fun with himedanshi and I think building bridges with them is more productive than trying to force fujoshi to become himejoshi.
Also, I feel I need to mention this since I've either neglected it or glossed over it until now, but I'm aware a lot of slash content is not just about attraction, but also about gender exploration. And not just in the trans way, though as mentioned a lot of trans men and enbies discover themselves through slash, I've actually read an interesting article (can't remember where, sorry) about how slash fandom is essentially drag without the literal crossdressing for queer women. It's about exploring their own experiences and sexuality through male characters, allegorical representation as opposed to literal representation. A comparison was made to cis gay men who prefer stuff like The Golden Girls over media actually about gay men, and obviously drag queens. Attraction still plays a part, "do I want him or do I want to BE him" is a common sentiment, but, I mean, you're not the first lesbian I've seen who's into m/m, so clearly there's more to it. (Apologies if I was being presumptuous here.)
Anyway, this probably wasn't all that coherent because I was pissed when I wrote it, I am just begging people to stop listening to TERF and radfem lite rhetoric over this. I get being annoyed at stuff like some fujoshi using "I can't find any good female characters" as an excuse (skill issue), but accusing fujoshi of misogyny more broadly and trying to pressure or guilt trip them into writing f/f is just wrong.
this like im sorry are people this obtuse or do we really want to pretend most fanfiction is not written by men? women into women are already a minority so stats wise it means absolutely nothing that wlw fics get less engagement and have less demand than mlm fics. straight men, big enjoyers of women, neither participate in fanfiction and nor are expected to, are thus exempt (to everyone's glee might i add) once we talk about the number of trans men and trans mascs who discover themselves through mlm works they seem to be exempt from participation as well. i hardly believe straight women will write good wlw media unless paid, so for convenience i exempt them as well. then we have queer people who do like women, but not in a way good enough. "not in a way good enough" means a range of things- genderbending canon male characters, preferring male characters in general, relating more to male characters, passively enjoying female characters, spending more time in circles engaging with male characters, "well, he is woman to me", enjoying male and female characters together, having non binary headcanons, having bisexual headcanons, not wishing to acknowledge the gender of fictional characters and yet inclined towards canon fictional men. now the radfems will nod their heads and go yes! there is a problem with these queer people who claim they like women, who claim they enjoy their characters genderless, who claim they're women, and yet revolve around men. they are lying, their preferences are a product of bias, a reflection of reality, they're examples of conditioning and internalized misogyny. i mean if they had any self awareness they would recognize that anyone who feels male characters are reflections of real men to the extent they equate their real, living enjoyers to mouthpieces of misogyny, then no wonder this very large group of queer people involved in writing fanfiction wants nothing to do with them. you cannot please people you stripped of their queerness lol, and it just so happens that the more queer people you hate and allege are responsible for "mirroring" patriarchy in fandom, the smaller your community becomes. there is not a single thing people interested in male characters as well as men have done that makes them misogynistic- liking male characters more, liking them genderless, preferring to interact with mlm communities, none of these make them responsible for the dearth of wlw works. instead of getting butt hurt that people who are neither interested in female characters nor in women are not producing wlw works, get butt hurt at people who are interested in female characters as well as women but keep cancelling wlw media, neither create nor invest in wlw media. and yes that group includes straight men, like it or not. if you see a problem with wlw numbers!!!! fucking change it!!!! your omegaverse lesbians slash mermaid impregnation slash alien lactation is NOT a netflix production! feminist criticism regards widely acclaimed authors who monetize works that don't center women, not sleep deprived college students struggling to update for the dopamine! commission writers!!! commission artists!!!!! DIY!!!! i just think it is fucking terrible that not only has free media creation like fanfiction has become a moral analysis of people, but there is this concept that the only lesbians in fandom enjoy female characters strictly and the rest of us are at blame for not falling at their feet with fics im sorry who are you!!!!! on top of this most of this regurgitated discourse is shared by people who have usernames and pfps and bios and whole accounts dedicated to their special!! yaoi!!! special male characters!!!! what makes you special babe have your male characters been touched by sappho? is it a phase? are you going to grow out of it? are you better than the fetishizers? because i am pretty sure at this very moment you could be talking about equally wonderful female characters instead, right? "why am i expected to fix a systemic problem" because you think the system is us but not you!! sorry i am very mad today i kind of derailed on things i already told ex oomf. this became more of my vent than a commentary to your ask because i have not been in himedanshi spaces, but i think it is lovely and i hope that these spaces grow as much as fujoshis had the opportunity to and i would love to meet more himedanshis my doors are open !!! you're also right about the gender exploration and it's just the way queer culture has grown around activity predominantly shared by queer men and queer women, but evolved into modern interest groups that can barely be organized by their binary origins.
