I think it started from the whole ‘shippers are bad’ narratives and how people were being silly about their close relationships. I’d say it’s also A Lot about jealousy. It’s surprising how many people take kpop so seriously and personally. Anyways shipping is a part of fandom culture and it has always been for so many years, especially in asian countries. Idk i think it began during pandemic when people who aren’t used to asian fandom culture got into it and started to twist things around. I honestly think it came from western countries like america?? Those kind of narratives i mean 🥴 and how they think they’re always right.

Anyways it most likely began from that and when these people see woosan, they knew it’s undeniable how close they are but a lot of fans are also gf stans and shipper haters, and just delusional in a way they think they have a chance with their bias 🤣 so yeah that’s why it’s always two members who are the closest who happened to be disliked by each other’s fans. It’s pretty telling to me. Other reasons may be bcs they’re just homophobic and can’t stomach the idea of woosan might be more. Pushing shipping aside, i think when we talk about seeing idols are humans, to me, it also includes the possibilities of them experiencing just anything, including sexuality discovery or things like that yknow. I mean as in being open about possibilities of them experiencing various human experiences and don’t box them in a certain view/stereotypes, etc. So in a way, it means we shouldn’t talk about them in 100% certainty unless it’s something they’ve shared.

And this goes back to woosan themselves, how loud they are with how close they are with each other, their closeness, their bond, the kind words they have for each other, how close their families are, these things can’t be erased the way some people want to. It’s also a disrespect to pretend these things didn’t happen. To love is to acknowledge and understand

i never had any doubts when it comes to woosan 😆 and it’s something these people had been trying to fight about bcs they never really got it Why 🤣🤣🤣 whenever they said something like “what woosan said to each other are just the same as they did towards other members”, i’d ask them, do they understand korean? their answers were always no, as expected. bcs i’ve seen a bunch of mistranslations of a certain ship too so i’m not even surprised when some of them came @ me with some more mistranslations. words-wise, i can talk about it confidently bcs i know korean so i understand the depth and differences, unlike them.

when they were like, how can you be so sure of woosan when you don’t even see other ships? oh trust me i have 🤭 it can be surprising but i read all ship fics! in terms of hobbies and medias, i consume everything. and i don’t just like a ship over simple reasons like “they’re cute together”, or “lately they have many moments tgt”, no no i’m not in this for the yaoi.

i like woosan bcs i understand what they have with each other. the depth of it, the meaningfulness, how incomparable it is.

and this is something not everyone can see and understand bcs it really does require a certain understanding about human relationships, closeness and dynamics. and i’m just someone who’s lucky enough to experience a lot of things when it comes to relationships personally so i can understand the differences, i can see how meaningful something is.

generally, i don’t see other people on just the surface level, it’s just who i am. just bcs people say someone is like this or like that, i won’t just simply believe them. i’d rather know someone personally myself and not just their exterior, i want to see who are they inside. that’s just my habit. so inevitably, this goes into my interest as well. i don’t just like woosan over simple things. it’s more of me really seeing the kind of bond they have— which is really really such a lucky thing to happen to anyone. and i’m talking as someone with many loving people in my life and really close platonic relationships as well. so it’s just easier for me to see it.

ofc, some people are able to understand and see it without experiencing things like i did but i can always tell that the people who said shitty things about them aren’t the people who come from a place of love to begin with (especially so when they’re the same people who spread hatred. people’s actions and words say a lot of them).

in terms of ateez’s relationships, all of them are close, they just have different dynamics. and we can force ourselves to make a certain dynamic to appear as another dynamic, that’s just lying to ourselves. the problem with shippers is that a lot like to compare. but the truth is, yungi, matz, sansang, yunsan, topaz, etc can never be woosan simply bcs they’re all different people. so no one can say and compare like that. people can be equally close and have different dynamics that make outsiders think one seem to be less close to the other when it’s just the same. in terms of closeness, it’s woosan and the members themselves who shared word by word that they’re the closest with each other so nobody can say otherwise. btw this has been going on for so long??? since their early debut, the members said the same, and even in the present days, the members acknowledge woosan as woosan, that whatever they do with each other just makes sense bcs it’s woosan (concluding some words from hongjoong himself)

over the years, the members, especially hongjoong often uses the word ‘relationship’ whenever he talked about woosan (with fans or others), to emphasize their closeness and their deep bond, rather just using the word ‘friendship’.

and back to dynamics, to understand it requires understanding the people individually, rather than just a pairing.
some shippers only have an interest in the pairing or the ideas they have over them, rather seeing them as who they are both individually and how they are with each other.

so to me, when people understand these things, the depth of their relationship, the different dynamics they have, it’s just that. it’s just a simple belief to me and when i believe in something, i just confidently do so bcs i’ve seen many things about it and many things related to it before diving into a belief. i guess that’s why i never had any doubts, and i don’t feel like proving anything to anyone either bcs we all don’t have the same mind, we don’t have the same heart. just enjoy the ride, nothing in life should be so very serious.

so ummm i guess if you do feel doubts then just surround yourself with people who can uplift you. i think i’m lucky that people around me have the similar mindset as i do??? also bcs we have more important things to worry about. like, i love woosan a lot i would talk about them nonstop and i would defend them but i would never sacrifice my mental health over kpop in general. it’s where i wanna have fun so if i happen to speak up, that’s simply bcs i’ve had so many that i had to respond 🤣 i’d rather choose peace but hate messages didn’t write themselves out. sometimes
we gotta give them the limelight they wanted: so people know who are these people, what are they like. if i weren’t a woosan fan, i would never be that certain ship fan simply bcs of their fans. the kind of mean things and how they like to start shits with others. i don’t want that.

but i like it here with my fellow woosaners, a lot of us are creative people and we enjoy each other’s works. the fics, the edits, the aus, the arts, etc. these are the things that are like gold to me and tbh these are good distractions over those silly things/silly people. also, don’t hyper focus on things in a negative way bcs that’s when things can get unhealthy when it’s actually nothing much.

i think it’s simply bcs i don’t care what people say and i just have this strong belief that good things happen to good people, and anyone with awful intentions would never live peacefully unless they fix that rotten part of themselves. maybe it’s my strong mind and spirituality? but yeah, life is a cycle. these people who have bad intentions towards him will only be more miserable while he’ll keep on being successful and has his life fulfilled, will keep on being so loved by many more people.

yknow even someone who’s quiet, who doesn’t do anything to offend anyone and who are kind can be disliked. life and people are just like that. whatever they have against us isn’t about us, it’s just a reflection of themselves. so it’s about what you choose to focus in life

Yup!!! When you look closely at it, it’s always always goes back to the jealously and the initial hatred they already have towards wy. It’s never really about ‘protecting’ sn, it’s never about caring about san. Why did i say this? Bcs it’s obvious. If they truly love san as who he is, they would care about what san said himself, and the people san truly loves , the kind of kindness, values and principles san always talks about, all those things he always mentioned about the world being harsh and yet guess who are the harsh, meanest people with the most hurtful words who often sent me hate messages?? wishing the worst for other members??? yup, san’s solo stans! other than sansang fans lmao, it’s always san’s solo stans and a few wooyoung’s solo stans.

Also who are the people who used to, or often said questionable things about wooyoung? Again, it’s them. I find it strange bcs it’s as if they cannot accept the fact that someone as kind and beautiful as san loves wooyoung so much bcs it simply means wooyoung has the kind heart as he does, or maybe he thinks it’s even kinder.

i’m sure san has a good sense of judgement and is so wise too (or does his ‘fans’ thinks he’s shit with making decisions for himself?? that he’s so baby he doesn’t know anything about protecting himself? that he cannot stand up for himself, always a victim omg that he’s so naive and weak?? oh!! now that sounds like an insult isn’t it?).

this is a wise man we’re talking about, a grown up…. A WHOLEASS MAN. this is someone who often talks about life and people, who has a big heart and did i mention strict values when it comes to courtesy and politeness??? when it comes to respecting people?? do these people even know the kind of person they’re stanning?? 😭😭😭 so see, it’s never about san, it’s these ‘fans’ having their own selfishness, hatred, insecurities and they project the feelings on san. It’s never about san, it’s about satisfying their ego and fulfilling their personal needs and hatred.

san is generally a pouty person, a cutiepie. and he had addressed this before btw since he knows his ‘fans’ tend to be like this. he said that it’s how he and the members joke around, and they can joke around like that bcs they’re so close with each other. he had addressed this a few times i think bcs people kept misunderstanding their dynamics and projecting on him.

who knows him more? us, outsiders or the members who have been with him for so many years? san, who used to be someone who had a really low self-esteem and confidence always, always proudly talked about how his members helped him to be so much more confident to the point that now, he’s the one who gives back that kind of encouragements to others. san is Not a kid, he’s not a baby. he’s a grown adult. he can joke around as he wants, and he can stand up for himself if something bothers him— as he always did before.

the hypocrisy of these people is that they always always ignore and pretend they don’t see all the good things about wooyoung, how san always talks about wooyoung and only hyperfocus on a few moments that lasts seconds which context isn’t in-depth. bcs we don’t know them. we don’t know their inside jokes and the kind of culture they have amongst them bcs we only see things on the surface level. and people kept bringing up things that have mistranslations in them too.

these are mostly san’s solo stans who used this opportunity to attack on specific members. their intention is more of victimizing and attacking. i’ve seen some huge fanbases too and let me tell you, these are the same people who used to discredit wooyoung back then. the same people who said some lines belong to san (and how he’s praised) when it was wooyoung who sang those high notes. they never apologized but they just deleted their post and blocked people who called them out. there are people who just don’t have the best interest.

in the end of the day, san is someone who always talks about his members proudly, he talks so much good things about wooyoung and in the end of the day, these ‘fans’ NEVER paid attention to what san said word by word during his lives or whenever he shares about his relationship with the members, especially wooyoung.

Nope, there’s no mistranslation. We don’t know them personally so we can guess but our guesses won’t always be right. Plus, i do think he’s just full of love so he may want to express it in as much ways as he could: be it giving gifts or creating moments together. love is vast, there shouldn’t be limits to expressions (also the whole love languages thing isn’t scientifically proven either so when it comes to talking about love, i put that concept away bcs it can’t be used to fully describe affections but it is still helpful to make people learn about themselves or people they love. it’s just…. it shouldn’t be something to hyperfocus on). so in this case it does seem like you may have boxed san into a certain way of him showing affection but what we never know of is that 1) we don’t know them 2) they only share a small part of their life. it can be that san is someone who likes to treat others or give presents but we don’t know simply bcs they decided Not to share. also, i remember vaguely about how…. was it eden??? anyways the person told a story about how san gave an expensive present to him.

yup yup i gotta say that yes ofc we can give feedbacks but we have to keep in mind that these are real people and we weren’t there when things are discussed and decided. some of the things we say could possibly hurt some people (could even hurt the one we’re trying to defend too) so while giving criticism itself, if we Do really care then i think it should be done constructively, not emotionally with the worst assumptions. there are….. proper ways to do this. we can be kind while addressing things like this.

for me personally i’m just gonna wait and see more of the teasers. i’m more of trying to figure out their direction actually. what is it about? does it relate to their story or lore? etc etc actually. i have a bunch of sort of extreme messages, opinions of the matter too so it’s like i’m seeing different perspectives here 😆 (also i’m just another human here too, not some frustration-dumping place or some therapist)

but generally speaking, i think he looks good, i like the outfits and the fabric of it?? idk what’s that but it flows and sits nicely on him. in the close-up individual pic, the shiny fabric makes it look like space-ish thing? 😆 his simple makeup also balances the graphic shirt he’s wearing. idk!! BUt for the group pic where we can see full outfit, it’s giving that hong kong actor style? something about the details of the jacket (?) and wide pants look really nice

oHhhh i think rather than actually about the members, it’s more of How some people were talking about it??? bcs it’s kinda giving that bi-erasure kind of narratives?? so it’s not about the members directly, or about their sexuality— just how people talk about it. i think we can imagine it as hmmm let’s say i’m a bisexual and i’ve been dating women. then after that i start dating men and people are being like, ‘did you go back being straight??’, ‘i thought you’re gay??’, ‘:so you weren’t gay after all’, ‘i knew you were just curious’, ‘did you repent?’ — sorry if the examples trigger anyone 🥲. so it’s like just bcs i date someone of the opposite gender, it doesn’t mean my sexuality isn’t valid yknow. and i think there are lots of cases where some people (including the queers btw) are lowkey kind of biphobic.

but relating this whole thing with the fan service, as i said, it’s not directly about the members, i don’t think people are actually focusing on their sexuality fr fr, it’s more of how others talked about it and be giving that kind of words/narratives/assumptions. or how heterosexuality is still made to be ‘default’ when it’s not the case.

also some people actually used this as something to lowkey ridicule some fans (idek why they did that?? to make them jealous? but yeah things like that did happen so….. 😭)

but yes you’re right about ktinys, they’re reacting about the performances and the very good fan service. a lot of the tweets i’ve seen acknowledged the fanservice and personally i’m actually feeling good about it? bcs that’s one of the ways of how to retain the local fans. we gotta keep in mind that fandom culture can be different according to the countries and s.korea has lots of fan service thing and people know this. even if fans can’t help but to be delusional, they still acknowledge fan service as a fan service. so in a way, i hope this makes people to be more interested, truly pay attention to all members rather than just their bias all the time. it’s a good marketing, suitable with the target market.