I used to be one of Those People years ago so I understand the emotions and mindset, I just obviously disagree with it and find the conclusions and implications of that mindset flawed and undesirable.

It sucks that it's just harder to idk, be separate from "Normie" spaces in the internet these days, it's too easy for art out of context to get picked up and noticed by tons of people who will then go on to spread it for the sake of announcing their Disgust, which is not conducive to art. I think disgust and being grossed out by things is fine, it's just not necessarily going to be logical or moral.

The reasoning that's hard to get past is the "But How Will This Affect your SOUL" in a Christian Corruption way. The argument is usually about "society as a whole" but if u look carefully at the way a lot of people tend to word their talk about such things, it's clear that there's a fear of people's Souls being damaged ("porn addicted/rotted" and such language), and that inherent damage affecting their decisions and actions irl.

The implication is that if Everyone Could Be Disciplined about your Icky Fetishes and Tastes and walks back onto the straight and narrow, or, if you can't fix yourself, at least Feel Appropriately Ashamed, we can correct the deeply engrained inequality and misogyny of the world we live in. Which as I and others have talked about many a time, is putting the cart very much before the horse and is ignorant of how humans and media actually function lol. Also like u say noncon is VERY common of a fantasy lol, even in more "mild" kinks the implication is there in the background, even if softened. I think some of the kinky artists/people who enjoy idk the aesthetic or use of handcuffs/bondage, restraints etc or art where it looks like one person is intimidating the other sexily but who are """uncomfy""" with an Obviously Pretend rape fetish that actually uses the word is like.... Bro the language is just a hop and a skip away XD (not to mention the radfem posters who will see anything that has the "aesthetic" of violence and be like "well this is CLEARLY Rape in Real Life!!" It's all the same to that conservative surface mind)

For ex the people who enjoy Yuri/yaoi/femdom noncon but not m/f maledom or vice versa that's fine and there's a LOT of reasons why those preferences would exist. The point is in fiction sphere it's all fake, it's Artifice that we take from real life and then transform into works and Fun but that doesn't mean we won't have various individual different Relationships to it.

Unfortunately the annoying thing is there really isn't a way around the two Big Actions of well, Making stuff (whether it ends up Good or not is irrelevant) and Posting it/sharing it. Which is all Easier Said than Done but here are my thoughts on it.

As long as ideas are in your head, they don't actually exist as works, stories or art, but more the idea of an art existing unspecifically. When you write or draw something down, it's frustrating because you're forcing yourself to make a Decision. Ideas must be translated into words, or lines/pigment on paper. This stage, of working with the Tangible, is where a lot of frustration but also improvement happens, because then you actually have something to work with, respond to, etc.

My tip for art is that if you're stuck, do STUDIES, copies, from life, reference photos, or fave artists. Get used to the physical motion and action of making things, and the feel of your materials. This will break down "resistance" to starting or knowing where to start because your instructions are are already in front of you. It doesn't need to be pretty or perfect, but the important part is moving out of the Thinking/imagination only stage to the Tangible stage.

While drawing for me is very intuitive, writing is a real struggle XD but I've slowly sort of been getting better at doing more this past year. I write on my phone, in my docs/Google note, in designated notebooks. I end up scrapping a lot of stuff but it's good to have on hand so you can look back if you need to. I think there are also ways of doing "studies" with writing you like, copying, transcribing, reading and taking note of writers you like and how they do things. I'm still working on this too so we're both in it together.

Sharing work:
It's a dual process of reminding yourself that you should be creating For Yourself and your pleasure and not just a fickle audience; however, art IS communication and you do need to do some presentation if u want people to know what you're about. AO3 original stuff is good, if you write anything with specific tropes or kinks it's good to tag so people who like the things you write about can find them. I think it's easier for porn bc of how Direct it is, maybe less so for more narrative stuff. If you work in a specific genre–fantasy, sci-fi, mystery romance etc–or even not fiction-specific, but if about a niche topic that pertains to your work--see if you can find communities that specialize in that genre and post there. But that's the next step of the process of "Make Things" , it's "Describe what you made," be able to talk about your work so you can connect with people. It's all complex and easier said than done but hope this is a bit helpful.

Idk maybe I regularly trawl some rancid (positive) tags on sites regarding what some might regard as Crazy Woman Fantasies but I just don't find this concerning at all. Do I think some tiktokkers are cringe in how they express their horniness for SephirothKyloRenKnockoff #18384949 choking them into submission? Yeah, lol, I don't find it always tasteful, but I regard a lot of Public posting as honestly performances of drama and presentation and attention rather than necessarily a truthful representation of someone's desires. (Also, if you see how men, esp Normie men respond to these kinds of posts are usually with disdain and mockery and complaining about why women pick their VampireWerewolfMafiaBoss #399449 over them. So while there is often a lot of cringe heterosexuality (what is normative and assumed often) it definitely is not, I don't think, something people treat as "real" in the same way that say, many men's fantasies are sublimated so deeply into the societal consciousness as to just be taken for granted.

As for True Crime and Serial Killer fandom...those are honestly completely separate phenomena I think, because those feed into a very different desire. True Crime especially often has the complete OPPOSITE tendencies than DarkMance lovers in that it spurs ppl on to become more vigilant/paranoid/individualistic in "protecting" ones self from Crimes while voyeuristically digging into crime details, and the Serial Killer "fandom" thing is, if u look more into it, less Abt girlies wanting a Serial Killer Bf IRL than getting obsessed with specific existing figures and the details of their lives, or doin weird RPF about them. Are these actions APPROPRIATE??? I would argue there's a lot of stuff in Bad Taste, but in that sense the poor taste behaviors have to do with crossing boundaries (in the true crime/serial killer sense, the boundaries of IRL victims/people's privacy and information, and spreading/publicizing it.)

All of that is massively different in scale than fictional fantasizing which is a reflection of someone's self-expression of desires, which yes can be cringe and overwrought but is, honestly such a complete non-issue im surprised it's causing you this worry. Can there be overlap with corny people online and people genuinely doing invasive behaviors? Sure, but unless you have proof of their specific bad actions and bad opinions towards others, there's no way to know.

And it's best in the long run, frankly, for ur own peace of mind and others, to mind your own business.

it’s funny because I think my style is very cartoony, i love cartoons and flat stylization sooo much! I actually struggle really hard with drawing irl people likenesses, it takes a lot of work for me (i’m trying to get better but it’s cursed…i have so many ugly sketches….) But yes currently I am more interested in (historical) RPF. i just think especially historical people stories are so deeply interesting, more so than a lot of fictional stories since the “lore” and “worldbuilding” is kind of infinite. many of people’s favorite fictional stories are built upon the tropes and stories that came from real people’s personalities established by their culture and contexts.

However i usually interpret that “realness” visually through a very cartoony lens, since I think cartoons are the peak of personal expression. (for example, when i draw shota stuff i feel like i draw them in a kind of “unreal” cartoonish way, that feels more like Concept idealized creature cuteness to me, when i draw the occasional Sexy Woman or bishonen I feel i’m referencing more the “idea” of sexiness than an irl woman) . because i’m interested/hyperfocused etc on Medieval People, its doubly interesting bc we have no idea how these people looked and acted aside from verbal description and stylized cartoony depictions, and thus my depictions kind of by necessity need to be Made Up. It’s different ofc for ppl who RPF people who lived during the age of the photograph….

i do want to improve my realistic likeness drawing so I can be more flexible and also make BETTER cartoons, but yeah XD It’s an interesting artistic relationship for sure

Lmao when I was a teen I volunteered at one of those Christian crisis pregnancy centers, and even tho they were pro-life it was really eye opening to see how much resources it took to care for pregnant people, and how callous ppl could be to them. This is before I knew how problematic those orgs can be, but even just a short time there seeing the practical needs of ppl really made me resent the conservative pundits who would just call everyone pro abortion as like Supporting the Holocaust or some shit. That, and when u grow up u learn how like 1/4 of all women have had an abortion at some point, even the Good Christian Conservative Women u know in ur community, and their having access to abortions is what allowed them to live the lives they're living now...it's really like looking behind the flimsy curtain. 😭 Alas, the Catholic inflation like u said continues their nonsense.

It seems a lot of these culture/sexuality war stuff ends up being ppl complaining about Abstract Definitions (when does LIFE begin? What IS A Marriage? What IS a WOMAN) that feels increasingly demeaning and philosophical and don't engage with how it affects ppls lives hdjdjd sorry for going off but man djdjdj

Haven't had the chance to use it yet but it's a fun one for the prolifers is, so do unborn fetuses go to heaven or hell, and if ur answer is heaven then truly abortion is the moral choice lmao bc ur saving a soul from becoming burdened with sin 💜 and if they say Hell bc of original sin and whatever then u have to admit ur worldview of what wrongdoing is is fucked up lmaoo. Anyways this was interesting and I was just reading this Medievalists article about medieval contraception and abortion https://www.medievalists.net/2024/02/birth-control-abortion-middle-ages/

That is an interesting image though hehe I kind of want to draw it....escalator down 2 hell indeed ! I don't think the Medievals knew about all the zygotes that don't make it but the concept of it is kind of fun and spooky 😭

Noo I feel this when I was in Batman 2022 fandom I made up an entire freak momdelusion for myself loool (giving Martha Wayne a Woman Hysterical backstory was so gothic and great. I got a ton of mileage out of that 5 seconds) ...I had so much fun XD my other Momson delusion that wasn't really delusion but just Text was probably when I was in my Back to the Future stage, bc I love Lorraine Baines 💜 BTTF is famous for the momincest but weirdly enough to me it's like....not incest ENOUGH? like there's nothing really exploring Marty and Lorraine's relationship as a parental one, in-text ofc in the movie past sequence she's just an normal teenage girl trying to connect who is ignorant of the narratives she keeps being put in. We see a glimpse of her as an Adult in the beginning as a sad and prudish woman but that existence is literally wiped out. It's a very fascinatingly objectifying story and something that I think prevents a lot of momsonanalysis hdhfh

My favorite Momson as u know from my Eleanor/Richard posting is that kind of Super Structured Royal (usually) inheritance kind, the one where the Mother contributes a lot to the Inheritance but it's often overshadowed by the Legitimacy of the Father/Paternal nominal line. Inspired a lot by real life, since I'm fascinated by the multiple accounts in the 12th century of men literally Marrying Up and into titles and legitimacy bc of their wives, that even if they themselves didn't claim it, mothers could pass things on to their sons, sons as tools/extensions of the Self in a patriarchal society 💜 it's very fun And spicy to me bc it's like the Mom living vicariously through the son's achievements, and enforcing toxic masculinity through him too. Very cool and lots to explore there haha ..

I don't really feel qualified to answer the more specific aspects of this directly since it's quite a lot out of my range of knowledge! I've seen lots of contrasting stuff written and I can see where a lot of ppl r coming from. I guess if I were to give like my personal opinion, it's mostly ig a pragmatic one...rather than really debating whether or not "is Full Service Sex Work Moral or Feminist or Not" (seems to be the conundrum) I prefer to think "How can we best support sex workers?" I guess it's similar to how I personally approach "is Being A full time Mother Feminist or Not" is like, well while we debate it, how do u support the women working in that role right now. Maybe that's "short sighted" of me ideologically but it's something I think about a lot, that while the debate rages on Abt whether or not the Madonnas or the Whores are feministing enough, they still are very much existing and working (and are often the same woman!) and will continue to have needs regardless of ideological disgust with their positions . I haven't read much scholarly stuff on this, just anecdotal from ppl on here and some acquaintances, so I'm just firmly of the belief that we don't need to make sex workers' lives and control of their livelihoods harder even if it may be ideologically uncomfortable for some ppls personal codes

I always recommend Dan Jones' "The Plantagenets" as a starter book bc it covers the basic facts pretty well, is an easy intro, and is up to date with the modern research. It also gives more of the background to their dynamic so you can understand why each of their reigns was the way it was.

For more advanced stuff, I'm currently reading Sir Maurice Powicke's "The Loss of Normandy" which is more detailed regarding the later years of Richard's reign and the beginning of John's, with a heavy emphasis on the warfare and conflicts between the Angevins and Philip Augustus. I like it a lot, though it's more academic and also you'll really need a map of Normandy to follow along lol.

For Richard specifically, I enjoyed Jean Flori 's and John Gillingham's biographies of him a lot; both are very good historians who disagree on some subjects, but I think whose work makes up pretty much the authorities on the subject. I'm not as versed in John-specific biographies I'm afraid (blorbo bias...)

I really feel like the kind of "Good vs Bad King" lens thru which both figures are viewed from is pretty reductive. Since they kind of emerge from very different contexts and had to deal with similar but different issues in rule, and of course are connected. I think understanding Richard and his decisions and where he left off at his death kind of helps in understanding John and his deal as well, and of course the relationship and conflict with Philip overall in the contentious king-duke-vassal relationship I think is the key to understanding the dynamics overall.

I mean, the first thing I'd think is they were probably too young to be reading such things lol...tbh, when people say that my first thought is I'm sorry that they probably didn't have better support or education in their lives to help them relate to fiction healthily, and know what makes up healthy relationships irl. It also reflect sadly a failure of the structure around them and adults around them to prevent grooming.

Honestly tho I think it's natural for teens and young ppl to fall in love with and have crushes on older people, and so it makes sense that fantasy-material will often include fulfilment of those fantasies. Idk we'd have to look at statistics to see what's more common to pop up where and in what genre, but I feel like that probably reflects both that fantasy-desire, as well as probably dynamics from real life (especially older works where young women often marry men who serve as more "mentor" figures first). It can be problematic but i would say the trope follows the reality more than vice versa

I FORGOT ABOUT THE CITY HUNTER RANT LMAOOO … I do get what she was saying re: frustration at what becomes known as “mainstream” and critically acclaimed/framed as “for general audiences” when expressing such clearly horny/sexual fantasies, but it is kinda out of place on the general info thread looool. In a later reply i think she talks about enjoying various comic works that have similar Problematic Pervert stuff but are specifically framed as erotic fantasies…

I think that would be similar to you and ur pervert yuriz, where the pervert yuri is being IN the genre where it’s expected. For me, it would be like I enjoy when there is some sexy homophobia and misogyny in my yaoiz and like, series that are very heightened fantasy drama bc it makes situations have a particular intense flavor, but feels jarring to pop up randomly in stories presenting itself as more objective/serious etc. But i feel the line can be blurred a lot tbh…i do think, when it comes to “representation” of any kind, the bad thing about sexist/homophobic/racist etc portrayals is actually kind of a craft issue, where its more like in creating a new thing, why go for the “easiest” most cliche portrayal that reflects the assumptions ppl already have…and if you DO decide to go for the cliche, you’ll make a better work if you have greater awareness of why that cliche exists, and make it more fun and cool than if u worked from ignorance…whether its pervert yuriz or homophobic yaoiz, it becomes much sexier if the ppl making it understand the essence of why it’s transgressive or exists in the first place