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Loyal Vassal · 2mo

Is there a reason why this keeps happening? I mean when a BL mangaka is a man or people perceives his work as “queer enough” their works stop being BL and becomes “queer”. This happens a lot with LITC for example, with Patalliro like, a few years ago no one hesitated to say that it was yaoi but more people discovered it and now know that a man drew it, is no longer BL but queer. Is this because people look down on the genre or something?/genq
The other thing, do you know what is meant by yaoi for the sake of being yaoi?
https://x.com/TsukiArting/status/1842532580647956653

"Yaoi for the sake of Yaoi" I'm guessing is referring to something being "just" porn, or meant to titillate, and thus a lesser form of expression. This is originally where the term comes from, a term used for self-indulgent doujinshi featuring guy x guy couples. Nowadays of course everything is "BL" not yaoi officially (now yaoi is more outdated slang, but one that sticks around in the anglosphere I think bc it's just a nice and distinctive word to roll around in ur mouth). I get what the OP is trying to say but it do agree with what you say, that the idea that the icky ~straight~ women make indulgent, shallow work while the Men are the ones who make Queer Art(tm). This is dismissive since it draws a binary where there really isn't one, and also is dismissive towards works that have very different audiences and intentions.

I think this attitude arises because of course, there are different types of stories that have different levels of depth. Something made just for porn straightforwardly usually isn't going to have the most fleshed out story and is usually just to fulfill or express sexual desires and fantasies. On the other hand a story that is about various characters and other themes may explore various subjects in depth, not just the sexuality aspect. There are also stories that are intending to portray representation in realistic or serious ways, which will of course end up having a different style and approach than stories that want to explore drama.

I feel like people often get confused about how to express themselves when they encounter a story that i, because they often jump to talking down about other stories that have different goals and aims and it sounds like this is the case. I wrote about how this has affected the way people talk about the manga "Nii-Chan" here earlier (link).

I've mentioned it before but it was neat to see this play out while reading the Gengoroh Tagame anthology, since he is usually the example of A Gay Man Making the True Queer Art(tm) in some people's minds but he is also definitely making porn for porn's sake a lot too--it was neat to see his range (and also note that for his more emotional-based stories, the ones ppl might he noted that they were done with a female audience in mind or influenced by "women's manga magazines," Shoujo and such. And you can see that influence even in his hardcore stories. Similarly for BL, when it comes to exploring queer themes there are works I think approach it in kind of stupid/insensitive ways and also works that really grapple with The Deep Important Abstract Queer Themes as well even when they are All About Sex and fantasy.

In general, I've realized what I get drawn to a lot in BL, GL, queer stories and art in general even if I don't share the exact same identity or romantic goals myself, is I like the themes of how people deal with making the decisions to forge their own paths by necessity due to inherent or societal difference. There are tragic and triumphant approaches to this, but it's an eternally interesting theme, and I think one that always ends up being addressed in some way, whether shallowly or more in depth.

In the end I think it comes to this sort of discourse is that the approaches are very diverse and some will resonate more than others, but I really think it's often more a stylistic and intention and skill/experience/taste thing than an element of inherent identity.

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