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I'm sorry for my late response đ˘ I wrote it but it didn't convince me so each time it turned into I will do it right, later...
Also I decided that its better to send you the name of the mangas I want you to read the topic section than the mangago profiles, if you could read them before this ask! Discarding the Misfit Collar, Susumu x Minoru, Penetrate me with your Eyes, Internet Love!, Zero Lover and Samejima-kun to Sasahara-kun
I'm sorry this is so long 𼲠I know you are not into commercial bl or bl manga to begin with, but as a thank you I want to rec Hit on by a Kinky guy! (virgin rapist x experienced victim)
I like two things that are controversial and happen to share several problematic points, eroge and bl. with eroge avoiding player comments is easy since you download them, if you want to see opinions you have to search, but when you read manga it's online so avoiding comments is just about willpower. and although eroge and bl share a lot in the taboo topics they touch on, incest, rape, staying with your rapist, etc. since BL involves a queer minority there is a lot more controversy since women use a minority they are not part of to write problematic things mostly for escapism thought the same argument can be used with eroge, most of it is written by straight men who use a minority (women) to write problematic stories sometimes also for escapism, that's why so many men like moe/lolis whatever sexuality they are, but to begin with many people don't see women as a minority (how many gay guys with a tsukihime pfp have I seen talk about how problematic yaoi is) that and the fact that there is a 'truly gay' counterpart to compare bl makes it even more controversial, there is no 'diformism' in how lesbians draw women to how straight men draw them, it's very common to see 'I like men who act and look like men' with BL readers but with women in anime no one questions that they are all bishojo/moe, when you look at the non-BL manga they read at no point do they comment on how 'unreal' the women's appearance or personality is. many of the heroines in eroge don't act like real women and that's because the writers just use cliches of the archetype of the girl they are writing adding how they think they would/should act but that gives way for both women and men to connect/project themselves on them, but BL readers and non-readers see it as something negative instead of an instance to project a more âfeminineâ side in the case of men and a more âmasculineâ one in the case of women because in the end homophobia and any queerphobia is directly related to misogyny So I'm impressed that people see it as something bad instead of a way to share experiences. i'm getting out of topic, what i wanted to get to is that despite the similarities in their issues i feel that eroge fans don't hate or look down on their medium, if there is a story that stands out they are the type to praise eroge and say how versatile and wonderful the medium is (obviously there are hateful vn gamers but those people think Danganronpa is a visual novel lol) BL readers are the opposite, these last few months I have read the topic section on mangago which shows at the end of the last updated chapter and it is amazing how every manga I have read there is always the âthis is so refreshing and different from the boring and shitty bl'sâ instead of being happy about the versatility of the genre. Have positive comments affected you to the point of not wanting to read one manga or another from the same author? like when people use a story as a example of how a good story should be, that kind of pedantic attitude. i think there is no one who looks down on the genre more than the readers themselves, it's the mentality of âno, you're right, i know this genre sucks ass but i still like itâ. no one tries to connect with the story or explain why they find it special, the compliments are always about how bad other BLs are compared to this one âfinally a tall muscular uke, i'm sick of ukes that are practically womenâ âfinally a uke with personality not those blushy crying damsel types that i hate so muchâ "vers! finally something nonheteronormative nd realistic" and the worst part of it all is that it's affecting my enjoyment, i have not been able to enjoy a manga these last two months because when i am reading them and something happens in the story i know exactly what kind of "praise" comments i am going to find (not to mention the kind of comments I'm going to see if there is dub/noncon, contrary to what twitter thinks I truly believe there are no more self-conscious readers than bl's) so to avoid the curiosity of reading comments and getting frustrated/angry/ruining my mood I don't finish reading the manga, I don't want to hate a manga or author because of that so I've been doing this.I haven't been able to stop this cycle lol help me, no but for real do you have tips for handling frustration? I don't want to fight with people but I also can't contain my ârageâ when I read them. the other thing is that sometimes the topic section is straght up bizarre, the Susumu x Minoru and Samejima-kun to Sasahara-kun for example.
Just in case, I've decided to put the mangago profile links here anyway, I'm using them as examples of what I've explained in this very short (LOL) ask.
https://www.mangago.me/home/people/1373904/manga/3/
https://www.mangago.me/home/people/675028/manga/3/
https://www.mangago.me/home/people/467756/home/
https://www.mangago.me/home/people/623342/home/ -honestly for this one just look at his favorites its hilarious
I'm assuming you use mangago but in the Read and Reading section you can see the person's comments/opinion of a manga.
The last thing, it's not that I think people can't have their own opinions, it doesn't matter how much they can frustrate me, it's just that since the pandemic I've been reading a lot of BL and the variety in stories does exist, obviously there are clichĂŠs in many of them but it's very easy to find different and refreshing stories, you just have to take the time to look for them, so it just makes me a bit sad to feel that most readers don't really like the genre. I also differ a lot with what people consider queer, but ultimately, there is bl that is queer and bl that is not, but I don't think a bl has to be queer to be good.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It took me some time to get through all of this, but I did want to address your thoughts as directly as I could. Iâm sorry that haters have made it hard for you to enjoy one of your hobbies, it really is unfortunate that people need to be embarrassed of their interests and kind of act like this.
âHave comments affected you to the point of not wanting to read one manga or another from the same author?â
Iâm used to seeing people be incredibly Loud and Wrong about my favorite media, so I suppose Iâve built up a tolerance. For example, one of my favorite manga is Haradaâs Nii-Chan (which definitely gets that âNot Like OTHER shota yaoizâ treatment), which I was so shocked by the kinds of comments people were posting in a kind of âdid we even read the same story???â That I wrote a blog post to share my thoughts.
I do tend to avoid popular media, not necessarily on purpose but more because I kind of know my interests and my tastes and I donât really feel like going out of my way to check out something for the sake of popularity unless I am sufficiently convinced, either by friend or fanart or a good review. If said media has a Toxic and annoying fandom, Iâm also more likely to ignore it, but it depends like I said if I can get a good word in.
This is a bit easier for me because as you know, Iâm a pretty Problematic(tm) artist who likes reading and creating the Evil power difference Rapey tropes and fictions that these guys are sooo afraid of, and itâs laughable to me that they are so hateful and scared ofâwhat? Something that comes out of my pen? That comes easily out of my huge horny brain? Iâve spent the past few years pretty much carving out my own space in terms of my friendships and audience, after kind of separating more from those more anti, âBL-criticalâ tiresome spaces, and itâs great to be able to feel relaxed online and be able to trust people around me wonât be acting insecure like that.
I empathize with people who have frustrations with finding media that they like that suits their tastesâeven for myself, I donât really like most commercial BL, or movies or books for that matter, or even lots of common/popular âproblematicâ tropes that circulate a lot. But also I donât make it everyoneâs problem.
Tips for Handling Frustration:
I get annoyed a lot, and I do understand the frustration and urge to argue and fight when faced with inflammatory comments like the ones that you shared. Hell, I used to get some anon sending such inflammatory comments and tweets DIRECTLY to my inbox for several months, saying all sorts of things. It feels bad to hear such insulting things, and of course the human impulse is to want to defend yourself or talk shit back to them. Hell, even when I was writing this, i was on twitter and saw some really annoying comments on a post and got mad about it, but then I decided to do my strategy⌠of. Taking a breather. Closing the tab, and looking at something else (in fact, Iâm supposed to be writing a paper right now haha, I donât have time for this dramaâŚ)
Ultimately, I think itâs good to have perspective. thereâs always going to be endless amounts of people commenting saying the most Wack Stuff Ever, on twitter, in yaoi comments, on facebook, in real life. If you try to fight one person, even if you âdefeatâ them (and what would a âdefeatâ even look like? Sending a Sick Burn? Them deleting their account? What would feel Victorious?â), there will just be more losers to argue with forever and ever and ever. To me, thatâs a real waste of short human life that I could be using to be fujoshing out. Itâs different of course, if the person youâre arguing with is a friend or someone you have an actual, real relationship with, but if itâs complete strangers commenting⌠theyâre just randos who are Loud and Wrong and goofy. So if I see it, I guess I just kind of⌠process it as Social and Cultural data, I guess, and try not to pay attention to it.
I think itâs a natural feeling to want to defend yourself, or defend a piece of media you like from someone being really mean and unfair. But unless itâs something like an accusation directly being aimed at you, I feel like itâs not worth it to engage directly and get your hands dirty there, since the end result wonât be something of value to you. Would you respect these peopleâs opinions in real life? I respect them as human beings, but even as a fellow human, Iâm not obligated to give their thoughts my time. Itâs easier said than done to say something like âJust Ignore the Commentsâbut it really is vital and necessary to mental wellbeing, and if other peopleâs random opinions are having such an affect on you, itâs a good idea to maybe take a step back for your own mental health.
And I guess itâs necessary not just to ignore such people, but do the oppositeâactively seek out people who ARE lovers of works, who are positive. If you find someone writing a good review of a series you like, give them a comment with your thoughts. Thereâs this therapy concept of defining what you can and what you canât control ⌠you cannot control what other peopleâs opinions are, you canât control what they comment, but you do have control over what you choose to engage with, and you shouldnât feel bad to STOP reading things that are upsetting to you.
For example, When I had my annoying retrospring anon, they would snd me lots of inflammatory comments and tweets, and for a while I tried to archive them as âproofâ to address later or something, but honestly it just made me feel bad, so I deleted them all, and Iâve lived so lightly since.
I would also suggest, if you donât do it already, finding a creative outlet. It doesnât have to be drawing or writing fiction, but it can be writing short reviews, making lists of something you like, organizing and categorizing them. Some people I know who get tired of more western-style discourse are motivated to learn Japanese, so they can read manga directly. If you canât find an analysis of a story that you like, try and write one up of your ownâmake a blog, or a zine, and share it with others if you feel comfortable with it. I think finding that kind of outlet is important, because it can channel energy into making something that has a definite end or finish point rather than engaging in something that will always be endless, like fighting against the waves. If you invest a certain amount of time into doing something like making a drawing, or making a list/spreadsheet of favorite works, or writing a review, or researching more info about your favorite authors by the end of the time you will have an End Result you can be happy with.
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I do want to address briefly some other comments you made earlier, about moe/bishoujo/girl and erogedepictionsâI actually do think like you said that eroge enjoyers are definitely a lot more relaxed and less stressful, but yeah because a work is heterosexual, thereâs a lot less pressure for it to ârepresentâ queer experiences or be âfairâ etc in the same way, since people already kind of view it as âdegeneracy.â I will say there ARE plenty of women who criticize and have criticized hentai and anime/manga sexualization and depiction of women and girls over the years, there is QUITE a lot of discussion and discourse about it from feminist circles, and a lot of condemnation of loli/lolicon otaku culture that has an obsession with feminine characters and cute designs but who make works with misogynist plots or assumptions etc. Itâs another side of the discussion, i think. There are even discussions about yuri and how there are women who arenât as into the moe-style of various yuris, even if the stories themselves are mature.
However, I do think youâre right in that such criticism tends to come more from âoutsideâ the culture, and those who are enthusiastically reading the eroge generally are not dissing it. I think for BL because it is a âdirtyâ genre, too queer and non-het for mainstream, too âunrealisticâ for Good Gay Representation, too feminine and âwomanâ-tainted for certain Gay MenâŚitâs a paradox of being highly successful and commercialized, but also constantly disdained or spoken of in terms of embarrassment. However, in a way I think that freak outsider status is what gives it room to be a bit more indulgent in its âembarrassingâ aspects more than other genres, which is something I really like about it, even if I find a lot of it Very corny.
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