Retrospring is shutting down on 1st March, 2025 Read more

a curious little mouse · 2mo

your post abt "speaking within the shape of the delusion of the characters, not so much outside of it". like that puts words to something i desperately want, and want more from more things, i am not a huge fan of the detached clinical observations and judgements of the outside observer in romance especially and that being the avenue for so much even casual storytelling is kind of bothersome. like its Watering Down the obsession by merely being there. if you have them, i would like recommendations for things that do not suffer from this...gaze? i guess? framing? i am not picky whatsoever

I let this answer rot I'm sorry, because I didn't want to answer it in a way that might feel mean, but I think I will submit to answering it ... in the only way I can think to.... which is also going to be very [walking around in circles]

What you are describing is, how basically any work made any time other than the past few years works, generally (not that there aren't still new things coming out that are good, but that the skew is kind of unfortunate)..... Twilight is this, seriously. Most works take their own perspective to heart and believe in the delusions of the characters, because that is generally how storytelling works .... you can listen to entire DISCOGRAPHY about devotion, stalking, possessiveness, and they won't take the unartful time to be clinical or pause to use therapyspeak!!! Because MOST ART IS PEOPLE EXPRESSING THINGS THEY FEEL OR THINK AT THE MOMENT OF CREATION!!!!! EVEN if they are scary, make no sense, or sound completely deranged! Most stories want to live in their own fantasy of the events taking place! Or in the reality of their own mind's understanding of a situation!!

Like, I actually think the amount of media that is weirdly outside of itself or commentating on itself, is bizarre and new and an extremely immediately recent epidemic bore from the sense of self-consciousness we are experiencing as a culture from social media (and perhaps just constant increased narrative consumption?), and then from the inevitable conclusion of corporate (un)creativity ala Disney & ilk... while I don't like the concept of 'heteropessimism' on the whole lol [I literally don't think this issue is in any way linked to any sexuality, and think queer people exhibit this foible presently AS MUCH AS straight people...], there's a bit of an article I feel conveys something I've felt well, at least:
"you actually end up having this very heavily mediated experience of the world, where everything that you experience is kind of always being played back into this meta-narrative that you’re getting from social media.”
^ some people not only experience this in their own dating lives, but also uncontrollably write from this hindered, self-observant perspective .... you see it a LOT in modern fanfic, where it's as if the author has to pull back for an entire chapter to reassure the reader, "I am aware of all the things happening here and how bad or weird or convoluted they are!", and sometimes that takes the form in something like an intervention or a bizarre therapy session between teenagers mid-fic.

This doesn't happen in the VAST MAJORITY OF MEDIA, but it's definitely an issue in a lot of modern romcoms, webcomics, animated series, action flicks, etc. There's definitely a sense of cringe which prevents the story from continuing on its own terms with its own logic, to all the extremes that may lead to. The moment a media starts doing this, I feel so frustrated haha, I just can't handle it at all. It makes ME cringe....

I think that, a good writer cares about everything in the world being diegetic ... saying yes to the limited perspectives and experiences of the characters, and then writing from it. Just to pull a pop-culture example, basically it doesn't matter if you or anyone can say Edward is being Actually Really Creepy or Stalking Bella, her own understanding of the situation is romantic; we don't need to pull back and say, "but it's not really romantic!" or "but this isn't reasonable!". Within her own experience of this story, it's a love story .... there's a very recent sense in writing, where people feel a need to say "but I know it isn't really romantic!" or, "just so you know, I'm NOT writing a romance story", and sometimes also enforce that onto the characters, who aren't allowed to just experience what they are earnestly from their limited perspective ...

When the Omori fanfic pauses for Hero to explain Grooming to Sunny, I feel like I'm going insane, I feel like the author just wants me to know they know what grooming is. HOW and WHY does this kid in the 90s KNOW these terms, who TAUGHT them to him?? It's not diegetic at all!! They might as well all pause to discuss the 2024 US election because the author is anxious about it. This happens in cartoons on television, now .... it's absolutely bonkers... but it probably depresses me the most that it's happening in fanfic. I understand why people in LA feel self-conscious of what they are writing under the observation of their peers, but I'm very sad fujoshi have to.

It's not entirely new in that I think creatives like .... .... Andrew Hussie, or Jhonen Vasquez, suffered from a sense of self-observation of their works that causes them to kneecap themselves and pull out a metaphorical fart piano whenever something gets too sincere or expresses something they really think and feel. Sometimes you'd see people express this in the form of taking a lot of unnecessary time debasing or insulting their main (actual self-insert, deep down) every so-often to say "don't worry, I know he sucks ass!" or "don't worry, I don't expect you to like him!" or "he's being irrational right now, I know, it's embarrassing!!" ..... I think, coming from people who, say, use somethingawful or 4chan, or even just a very gossipy indie comicsscene, you got the same result in the 90s/early 2000s, just without the therapyspeak or er, pathologizing... I won't say it is exclusively modern.... the same shape of shame and meta-eye-view. It's pretty sad that this has extended outside of this kind of person (typically just some fussy cis guy lol) and into just some poor teen girl's fanfiction honestly, it's kind of devastating to me on the daily to watch it happen ._. it honestly has depressed me to the point of being unable to engage with most western fandom or fanfic, it's like soulcrushing for me ....

[sits down] anyway. I'd just recommend like reading Inuyasha or something, idk. Like just enjoying an older movie or piece of media. This kind of straightforward storytelling exists in droves too infinite for me to innumerate.......................... read, Red Dragon, stream Hospice by the Antlers, I don't know ... sobs

Retrospring uses Markdown for formatting

*italic text* for italic text

**bold text** for bold text

[link](https://example.com) for link