Retrospring is shutting down on 1st March, 2025 Read more

A Mysterious Face · 2mo

Well, you and me are the same when it comes to the poisoning the well and the spread of misconceptions. I roll my eyes when someone has a character written off extremely different from what they are.

When it comes to that people will always have different factors they used to judge things. That is what causes different viewpoints when it comes to determining whether or not someone is good/bad/right/wrong. I find that generally most people have the same morals/ethics however the factors they use make judgment will make the outcome of their judgment different from others.

Regarding the point you were trying to get to, I suppose part of it is about Madarame, but part of it does relate to Taku. If anything I'm rather disappointed, that you can causally come to the conclusion that Madarame is the G-word when you put a lot of work into dispproving that Taku is not. I had believed that if you talk about labeling a character the G-word around then you'd put in the same amount of work into researching the truth of it as much as Taku. Though reading your thoughts about Madarame, I see the process of where you might have come to that conclusion. However it doesn't seem like you see the bigger picture. I don't really see any evidence pointing to the fact and if anything there's enough to disprove that Madarame is the G-word. Madarame is a hard character to read. However the clues to who he is are there, but not everybody is equipped to pull out that information and/or figure that out. If you truly believe Madarame to be a G-word then I'd like you to explain to me, when this happened, how it happened, and any evidence from the novel that may prove this. I'd like to understand. Also for your information, I don't see Madarame as a beacon of goodness or anything.

I know what the mute/block button is for and I've used it in the past so there's no need to worry about me.

And this is why I felt that talking about Madarame, or even mentioning him at all, has become a riskier thing for me to do... But anyway.

When it comes to those posts, I mainly meant that I find it to be some kind of confounding double standard with regards to how the fans readily label Taku as a groomer on the sole basis that he's 20 years older and knew Towa since childhood (which I can understand won't appeal to all fans although that's a separate matter) while not even doing something similar to Madarame when, and I emphasize when I say this, he'd fit the bill more, even if on paper. I've seen posts that hate on him, for sure, but not specifically involving this accusation - a fact that I soon noticed because of how it contrasts with the many, many posts of that same accusation surrounding Taku.

And as for why I expected Madarame to get decried by the fandom as a groomer more than Taku, or as much as Taku... Before I go on, let me stress, and really stress, that this isn't me trying to defame him. This is just me pointing out technicalities to why he would easily be regarded as a groomer as well; we know that Towa's mental state became fractured and he already slept with many other men before he and Madarame crossed paths, but that's besides the point.

Anyhow, to start, Madarame himself also has an age gap with Towa of 13 years. He knew of Towa since the latter was a child (confirmed by Kabura in a stream) and started sleeping with him when Towa was still in high school (Kabura also said in a stream that he was 15 to 16 when they started sleeping together). And some of Madarame's lines, plus his actions in Fujieda's route, hinted that he already knew about what Towa went through (being prostituted) even before Maya died. Even if Madarame mainly does what he wants when he wants, he also proves to be sly when needed or if it benefits him, which means he can put two and two together regarding Towa's circumstances. This then points to the fact that he willingly enabled Towa's trauma-induced tendencies then, and may do so again if given the opportunity (like in his route). We can dig deeper into that particular matter, but even when taking into account both the aforementioned statement and what his route, his character niche or his dynamic with Towa is intended to be portrayed as, there's still how even with that knowledge, he opted (again, under certain conditions, of course, since we know he opts to just leave in other routes) to essentially condition Towa to regress to his younger, volatile self - which in of itself counts as one grooming another's mind, albeit in a completely different sense from the kind of groomer Taku is now often accused of.

And on a side note (just to be safe), I know some would rather disagree on the 'regression' part, but Madarame did say "If you go back (...)" and frankly, I've seen enough of said takes/rebuttals either on Twitter or in more private spaces, all of which seem to come from some desire to paint him as the healthiest or most stable LI (either in terms of himself or what he offers Towa) or as you said, a beacon of goodness, and they're takes that I have outwardly expressed my utter bemusement towards; though you did clarify that this isn't what you personally think. And this isn't even the point of this discussion, but I still mentioned it just to get it out there already.

Also, whenever I brought up Madarame in the metas I've posted, I never once tried to say he's a groomer. So my point is, the recent posts/comments I've made are because the groomer accusations about Taku drove me to make barbs - be they completely serious or in half-jest - on what I previously said was a double standard, or what would also be known as fandom myopia. It's mainly about that topic, and not me trying to spread any hate about Madarame. Heck, I know fans who either love or hate Madarame, or even stand in between (with some of those who love him even being biased towards him like I am with Taku) that readily acknowledge said double standard and have made similar statements themselves, with us essentially shaking hands in agreement. If anyone else is calling Madarame a groomer, even if that topic isn't as simple/straightforward as it sounds, at least I could see where that came from (like what you said to me with what you thought I was conveying). But again, it's the severe magnitude that the same claim - albeit with Taku - is being taken to that drove me nuts and made me vocal about the matter, which just so happened to include Madarame from time to time, which then caught your attention, and which is why here we are now.

Because of past experiences, I have a feeling that my explanation might invite another questioning, so let me try to add by saying that while I personally think Madarame's route has flaws (mainly in the pacing and I am not claiming the other routes are without flaws), his presence and his route overall (and everything that comes with both) are there for a reason and I understand and appreciate what the writer was going for with him. I can't say he's my favorite, but I enjoy him and I don't hate/dislike him (though I won't fault those who do and I generally don't have an issue with either his haters or his fans), so there's that regardless. Though whether a character is my favorite or not doesn't mean I have to talk about them seriously 100% of the time. Depending on the character and on my mood in general, I can also roast them and make jokes at their expense (which naturally means they aren't meant to be taken seriously) every once in a while, but that isn't automatically tantamount to me touting misconceptions about that character or encouraging others to hate them. And Madarame is one such example of that.

I pray that this answers your question and resolves this matter. I mean, at the end of the day, we all have our own opinions and you seemed to want a clarification on mine. I can't deny that this whole thing unnerved me, especially with the first question I sent, but I was nevertheless willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and answer as best as I can, and while I'd love to share or discuss my thoughts on this and that, there are times and situations when I feel at ease about it, or the opposite of that. Besides, it's fiction that we consume for leisure, not for a living; this kind of thing shouldn't get dragged out or should be discussed so intensively (especially when it started on what undoubtedly felt like an accusatory note), and I will be honest if I say that talking about this any further will just be exhausting for both of us (and especially me, I try my best to exercise civility but it's not like a switch that's permanently on). If, at this point, you still think that I'm too biased against Madarame to have an educated or semi-objective opinion about him or whatnot, then fine, that's how you perceive me and I can explain myself, but I have no intention to force you to come around to how I think, nor do I see the point in that. Even then, I've already said so much to try to explain where I stand, and I know what I think, and I also know when I've said enough or even more than necessary.

With that, I hope that this settles it, and that you acknowledge my answer without pressing the matter further so that we can both move on. (And just as a precaution, I will disable anon after this. Any further tension or what I fear may unwittingly escalate into outright negativity is something that I prefer to avoid, or at least keep to a manageable level.)

Retrospring uses Markdown for formatting

*italic text* for italic text

**bold text** for bold text

[link](https://example.com) for link